This investor makes six figures in revenue with out placing a single greenback into her actual property offers. Utilizing a new actual property investing “mannequin,” Chauncey Pham has cracked the code to make as a lot revenue as doable from a single property. It’s so genius, we’re stunned nobody has give you it earlier than, however at present we’re sharing it with you.
Chauncey has at all times been good at gross sales—clearly, when she changed her W-2 revenue within the first three months of being a actual property agent. She noticed her investor purchasers earning profits hand over fist, and thought, “If they will do it, why can’t I?” So her husband give up to assist her attempt flipping homes. The first deal netted a $60K revenue.
That was it. It was time to go all-in.
However then Chauncey realized one thing essential. In each home flip, dozens of individuals are getting paid. The client’s agent, the vendor’s agent, the lenders, the contractors, the stagers, and the title firm. This was six figures in bills that she might be accumulating. So, she created a brand new “mannequin,” what she calls “turnkey home flipping,” that enables her to make six figures with out placing a greenback into the deal.
That is precisely how she does it.
Henry Washington:
She makes cash seven alternative ways on each actual property deal and by no means even owns the property. Most actual property traders assume in offers. They assume purchase a property, renovate it, promote it or lease it out. One income stream per home. In 2022, Chauncey was flipping homes and accumulating leases doing 20 offers per yr. To make more cash, she wanted extra capital and extra contractors and extra tenants, and meaning extra complications. So she constructed a completely new mannequin. Now she runs a vertically built-in actual property operation. Her purchasers put up the capital they usually hold the earnings, however Chauncey takes the lower at each stage of the mission, which might typically even be extra worthwhile with out the entire threat. This enterprise provides Chauncey a singular view of the whole actual property investing ecosystem. Right this moment, she’s sharing the teachings she’s discovered from this uncommon actual property perspective.
What’s occurring everyone? I’m Henry Washington. Oh yeah, and Dave’s right here too. What’s up, Dave?
Dave Meyer:
Don’t sound so dissatisfied. I’m excited to be right here. That is going to be a enjoyable dialog with Chauncey at present.
Henry Washington:
Sure, I’m tremendous excited too. And truthfully, there’s most likely numerous actual property traders on the market who’ve the talents and assets to do one thing like this they usually most likely simply haven’t achieved it. Right this moment we’re speaking with Chauncey Pham, an investor within the Dallas market, and we’re speaking about constructing wealth by actual property ecosystems, not simply properties. Chauncey’s going to indicate you the way to consider actual property as a enterprise with a number of income streams, easy methods to supply offers creatively with out counting on wholesalers, and which items of the method you can begin monetizing at present, whether or not you’re flipping, shopping for leases, or doing another technique. So let’s carry her on. Chauncey, welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast.
Chauncey Pham:
Hello, thanks guys for having me on.
Henry Washington:
Let’s begin this off the identical manner we begin off each present. Why don’t you inform us a bit of bit about your background and what you have been doing previous to actual property?
Chauncey Pham:
So my background is hardcore one name shut sort gross sales. After which I find yourself transitioning right into a advertising and marketing function. I used to be an account govt for a advertising and marketing agency the place I labored with numerous C-stores and vogue chain, so BCBG, BB, Circle Ok. And I primarily was the liaison between their advertising and marketing departments and my firm who really created all of their level of buy advertising and marketing. And so it was actually, actually cool as a result of I discovered the psychology behind advertising and marketing in that function. And whereas I had that job, my husband and I find yourself shopping for and promoting a few main residences. And our mortgage officer was like, “You’d be actually freaking good for those who bought your actual property license.” So I bought my license, however I legit bought my actual property license as a result of I needed us to go to Disney World and ball out with the VIP passes and cross it.
That’s why I bought my actual property license.
Dave Meyer:
So that you’re like, “If I promote one home, then I might go to Disney World.”
Chauncey Pham:
I can go to Disney World and fall out. And in order that’s why I bought my license. However as a result of I had the gross sales background and the advertising and marketing background, inside three months of getting within the enterprise, I’d made my total annual wage in commissions. And so I give up my job and it was off to the races from there.
Henry Washington:
So what yr was this once you bought your license after which determined to do your precise first actual property deal?
Chauncey Pham:
So I bought my actual property license in 2016. And I simply was a conventional realtor from 2016 till I picked up my first funding deal in 2019. So after a yr of getting my brokerage, which by the way in which, the foundation phrase of brokerage is broke and that’s what the hell I used to be for the entire yr and a half at it as a result of realtors don’t promote something. 90% of them don’t promote nothing. And so I primarily then moved my brokerage, shut it down and went over to the nationwide brokerage that I’m with now and have become the highest recruiter inside the first yr that I used to be there, introduced 400 brokers beneath me. And that first yr was earning profits off of all of their gross sales, which then allowed me to get out and begin investing. So I began doing that in 2019.
Dave Meyer:
Chauncey, we get this query rather a lot about turning into a dealer, actual property agent earlier than turning into an actual property investor or in tandem with turning into an actual property investor. So what’s your recommendation to people who find themselves contemplating that path?
Chauncey Pham:
I 100% attribute my successes and my mindset in being an investor to the truth that I used to be a realtor first.
Dave Meyer:
Actually?
Chauncey Pham:
100%. Attention-grabbing. And I might suggest to anybody that wishes to be an investor to at the very least discover getting their actual property license, not in order that they will go and promote homes, however in order that they will perceive the fundamentals of the actual property transaction from the patron perspective. As a result of once I began flipping, I knew what it was prefer to take a purchaser to see eight, 10 homes in a day, and on the finish of the day, ask them which one they need to put a proposal on and the way 90% of them have been fully forgotten as a result of they have been all simply white, grey, similar flooring, similar journey, similar end. It’s all the identical factor. They didn’t bear in mind any of them. And I knew what made them tick emotionally. So I at all times mentioned, if I begin flipping, I’ve bought to discover a strategy to be strategic in making a product that’s going to be memorable for purchasers and be one thing that individuals really hunt down.
And 100%, that’s what has set me aside from everybody else that’s in my market.
Henry Washington:
I don’t 100% agree with you on the getting your actual property license very first thing, however I completely perceive that perspective. And I like the attitude of understanding each side of the transaction since you’re completely proper. Plenty of traders, purely numbers targeted. The quantity of occasions I’ve heard flippers say, simply get a spec sheet and flip the identical home to the identical spec sheets, similar colours, similar finishes, as a result of it’s higher for enterprise drives me up a wall. Each home we do is about what we predict the client in that neighborhood or that individual market desires, and that’s what’s going to assist your homes promote sooner. In order that perspective on why it’s best to get your actual property license, I feel is a reasonably cool and distinctive perspective. And I agree with you. Traders have to study extra about what your clients need. And positive, there’s most likely some comfortable medium between methods processes and repeatability after which nonetheless having some type of individuality, however you’ve bought to do it correctly.
Chauncey Pham:
Right, right.
Henry Washington:
I’m assuming as you have been doing these actual property transactions as an agent, you have been like, “Hey, these traders appear to be making some cash. How are they doing this? ” What made you determine I’m going to take the danger and do my very own actual property deal? As a result of it sounds such as you have been killing it as an agent, proper?
Chauncey Pham:
Yeah. So what made me type of pivot from simply being an agent to an investor is I had an investor consumer. He reached out to me. He had a flip that was in a neighborhood that I had bought fairly just a few listings and was like, “Hey, are you able to simply go and provides me some suggestions on this property? It’s been sitting available on the market and never getting any showings. Let me know. ” So I went, known as him the following day and I mentioned, “Right here’s my recommendation, right here’s what’s occurring. ” He known as me then the following day and mentioned, “All proper, I’ve bought excellent news and I bought dangerous information.” The excellent news is I don’t must take care of the realtor that had my home listed and the dangerous information is I don’t must take care of her anymore as a result of I fired her. And for those who don’t take my itemizing on, then I’m screwed as a result of all my cash’s on this home.
And so I took his itemizing on and I bought it the very subsequent week over asking. And from that time on, I grew to become his agent. So I helped him with acquisitions, I helped him on the consulting facet. After which when his flips would go on they’re able to go available on the market, I really listed the properties. And I might see each single time that we went to the closing desk, how a lot cash he was making versus what my fee was. And I additionally discovered his course of. He didn’t have one. He didn’t have a duplicatable course of. He actually simply was like, luck. Offers have been falling into his lap after which he would get it and take it down. And once I would ask him, “What’s your means of getting these homes?” He had zero processes. And so for me, I mentioned, “If this man can do it and he’s making this cash, then I undoubtedly can create a duplicatable course of and system and plus all of those lips are type of ugly so I can do it and I can do it higher.” And so I really talked to my husband who was mainly a C suite govt and he was our breadwinner, proper?
I used to be making nice cash, however he has the insurance coverage, he bought the job. And I’m like, “Babe, give up your job and be a part of me in actual property and you may open our investing facet.” And he was like, “All proper, guess.” And he did. Actually? And he did. That’s
Dave Meyer:
It.
Chauncey Pham:
Simply
Dave Meyer:
Like that?
Chauncey Pham:
Actually, it took him a few months.
Henry Washington:
He’s a gross sales professional.
Dave Meyer:
Do what to say to him. Yeah. He didn’t even comprehend it was coming. And he’s
Chauncey Pham:
A gross sales man too. So we at all times argue about who’s the most effective nearer. And I’m like, who’s the most effective nearer now? And so yeah, bought him to give up the job and he began our funding firm in November of 2018. And January 2019, we had our first deal.
Henry Washington:
All proper, we’ve bought to take a fast break, however once we come again, we’ll hear extra from Chauncey proper after this.
Dave Meyer:
As a number, the very last thing I need to do or have time for is to play accountant and banker. However that’s what I used to be doing each weekend, flipping between a bunch of apps, financial institution statements, and receipts, making an attempt to kind all of it by property and determine if I used to be really making any cash. Then I discovered Baselane and it takes all of that off my plate. It’s BiggerPocket’s official banking platform that mechanically types my transactions, matches receipts, and exhibits me my cashflow for each property. My tax prep is finished and my weekends are mine once more. Plus, I’m saving a ton of cash on banking charges and apps that I simply don’t want anymore. Get a $100 bonus once you join at present at baselane.com/bp. BiggerPockets Professional members additionally get a free improve to Baselane Good that’s filled with superior automations and options to avoid wasting you much more time.
Henry Washington:
All proper. We’re again with Chauncey Pham, speaking about vertically integrating your actual property enterprise. Let’s get again to it.
Dave Meyer:
So what
Henry Washington:
Did that first
Dave Meyer:
Deal appear to be?
Chauncey Pham:
This specific property, we went out and walked it and lengthy story quick, we have been capable of decide it up for $125,000. The girl simply needed sufficient to pay it off and have a bit of bit of cash to stroll away. We purchased it for 125. There was nothing fallacious with the home. We have been going to place about 20 grand into it and promote it on the 215 mark, however as an alternative I threw it on the MLS in coming quickly and had an investor that was in search of leases within the neighborhood, put it in for coming quickly at 192, went underneath contract, bought it two weeks later at 186 and did completely nothing to it. So it was mainly a wholetal deal and I used to be capable of take that 60,000 after which we simply type of stored rolling from there.
Dave Meyer:
Clearly that sounds unbelievable, Chauncey. Individuals are most likely questioning, is that doable? Is it doable anymore or is that type of deal a relic of a unique time available in the market?
Chauncey Pham:
I don’t assume that her scenario was distinctive. The best way that we have been capable of capitalize on that was she had beforehand had the home available on the market with a realtor and it had gone underneath contract.
And when it had gone underneath contract, the title firm popped up with a lien and it was a client debt lien. And so once we talked to her, she was like, “Final yr tried to promote my home, however this lien is on right here. When you guys can simply get this lien gone and simply get me this a lot cash in my pocket, you may have the home.” And so I feel that what was distinctive about that scenario wasn’t essentially distinctive. It was the truth that we understood easy methods to remedy an issue. And so are these forms of offers nonetheless on the market the place you simply have to be an issue solver? Sure. All day lengthy, that’s what all of them are. And I simply assume that far too many individuals are within the recreation they usually’re not taking a look at themselves as drawback solvers, quite they’re getting into with type of a one trick pony as a result of even once we went to her, it was not, “Let me simply purchase your home.” It was, “I should purchase your home.
I can checklist your home as a result of I’m a licensed realtor.” That’s another excuse it’s best to most likely get your actual property license. I can renovate it if you would like after which take the price of the renovation, simply put a lien on it after which we will promote it available on the market, whichever answer is finest for you. And so I undoubtedly assume these offers are out right here.
Henry Washington:
Yeah, these offers undoubtedly exist. I’ve one underneath contract proper now that I feel we’re paying 180. It doesn’t want any work. We’re going to wash it up, throw it again available on the market for 250.
Chauncey Pham:
It’s
Henry Washington:
The scenario that’s inflicting us … It’s known as the woman is about to lose it in foreclosures, and so we’re going to purchase it. She’s going to make some cash as an alternative of simply lose it. After which we’re going to show it in. The home was constructed three years in the past. So it’s about in search of conditions, proper? Right. Chauncey, can we play a recreation?
Chauncey Pham:
Yeah. I’m
Henry Washington:
Going to place your abilities to the check.
Chauncey Pham:
Okay.
Henry Washington:
We’re going to function play. I’m going to be a vendor. I like that. So I stuffed out your web site. I’ve a home on 123 Important Avenue. You get the lead and also you’re calling me and I reply the cellphone and what do we are saying? What will we do?
Chauncey Pham:
Hey there, Henley. How are you?
Henry Washington:
Oh, I’m doing nice. How about you?
Chauncey Pham:
I’m doing fairly good. Hey, you’re the proprietor, proper? Over at 123 Important Avenue?
Henry Washington:
Sure, I’m. Completely.
Chauncey Pham:
All proper, cool. Properly, I bought your data from my web site. It seems such as you want to promote this factor actually rapidly. So inform me this, earlier than we even get into the dialog, if I might wave a magic wand for you, get this factor bought precisely the way in which that you simply need to, how does this example play out in your head?
Henry Washington:
I might like to get it bought and get it bought rapidly as a result of I really want to unload this property in order that I can get the cash I want to maneuver on to my subsequent property.
Chauncey Pham:
Okay. So primary, how a lot cash do you might want to transfer on to your subsequent property? And quantity two, why do you might want to promote so urgently?
Henry Washington:
Yeah, I have to promote urgently as a result of I discovered a home that I actually need to purchase and this one has an excessive amount of work that it wants for me to get achieved. So I simply want out.
Chauncey Pham:
Okay. So that you want out. And the way rapidly are you seeking to shut?
Henry Washington:
A minimum of 30 days or much less. When you can go sooner, that’d be nice.
Chauncey Pham:
Okay, superior. And so then at that time, I might usually do some type of evaluation with them and begin pulling up the comps on the property. And at that time, I might begin actually poking the bear on the ache. So I might ask them to ship me any photos or probably FaceTime me. Let’s do a fast video walkthrough of the property so then I can examine it to what’s available on the market. And this manner, this could expedite me getting them a proposal. I don’t even want to come back out to the home. FaceTime me actual fast, get me on Zoom. Let’s stroll by it proper now. I can get you a proposal proper now on the cellphone. And I’m going to additionally, at that very same time, pull up another properties and have him pull it up and acknowledge the truth that his property is nowhere near these in order that once I include my low ass quantity, he’s not offended.
So Henry, you perceive your home doesn’t appear to be 124 Important Avenue that’s proper up the road. This one, look, this one has granite counter tops. We simply stroll by, yours has for Micah, and I’m going to have to interchange all of that, proper? You perceive that? And so I usually stroll them by all of that after which I’ll even usually ask them a query. So Henry, based mostly on these homes that I simply confirmed you, how a lot cash would you personally assume must be put into your home to get it as much as that stage?
Henry Washington:
I like this query as a result of I do it on a regular basis. I might say someplace between 25 and $30,000, which in vendor speak means what to an investor.
Chauncey Pham:
Yeah. Now Henry, how are we going to get 25, $35,000 achieved on the … You assume I’m doing the work or I’m going to rent somebody? I’ve to rent somebody. There we go. In order that’s not going to work. Realistically, that is wanting like about $100,000 that I’m going to must put into it. So let’s again these numbers out. So that you need to stroll away with X, Y, Z, and as a way to try this, I must offer you this quantity. But when I assault $100,000 on prime of it, once I flip round to promote it, I don’t have any cash. So let’s work out one thing that’s honest. Does that work? If I can remedy your drawback and the timeframe that you simply want it solved, however I’m additionally fixing an issue for myself, let’s make some shake. And that’s usually the way it stage with them.
Henry Washington:
And that’s the investor standpoint. Now, once you make these gives, are you additionally providing them an answer the place you’re the agent?
Chauncey Pham:
Right.
Henry Washington:
On the similar time?
Chauncey Pham:
So usually if they’re offended by the investor provide, look, you don’t get each on the similar time. You may’t be out of time and wish extra money. So if you wish to inform me proper now that you simply’re not out of time, then I’ve one other answer for you. And that answer is we will are available. We will perhaps perform a little bit of labor on the property for you. I personal my very own development firm, so I can are available, I can do the give you the results you want. We will receives a commission on the again finish, so we will work out a deal that manner. I’ll checklist it for you. I’ll management that a part of the transaction for you, be sure that your charges and all of which are actually good on that finish. We’ll deal with the development for you after which we get it bought and get you that larger quantity, however it’s going to take a bit of bit extra time.
So which one would you like? You need time, you need cash?
Henry Washington:
I adore it. I adore it. I do a model of the identical factor, however what you have been primarily doing once you requested me what I needed was you have been making an attempt to determine which answer makes essentially the most sense,
Chauncey Pham:
Proper? Right.
Henry Washington:
When you’re saying you might want to transfer rapidly, you then’re considering as an investor. And for those who’re saying, “I’ve on a regular basis on this planet and my home is in nice form,” then you have got an choice as an agent to checklist that property. And I feel that that’s what traders have to study is your job isn’t to signal your contract in your subsequent deal. Right. Your job is to determine what does that vendor want, what do they really want as a result of they’re clearly going to carry one thing again as a result of they assume that we’re right here to swindle them and get this finest deal doable, proper? And they also’re holding these playing cards near the chest. However as you ask questions, you can begin to determine that out and you can begin to current an answer that really works for them. And I feel what you’re saying is as a licensed agent, I now have extra choices to assist any person than any person who will not be a licensed agent as a result of all they will do is make a money provide or perhaps do one thing from a artistic financing facet,
Chauncey Pham:
However they
Henry Washington:
Can’t checklist a property they usually can’t do a few of these different issues. And so I do assume that licensed brokers have a superpower, however I don’t know that all of them know easy methods to use it. So you probably did your first flip. About what number of flips did you do in a given yr and for a way lengthy did that final?
Chauncey Pham:
So our first yr, 2019, we did precisely 10 flips. Wow. Yeah. So we did 10 our very first yr. In order that $60,000 type of gave us a bit of confidence and we constructed the little course of out after which we purchased our second property. After which after the second, we had the chance to select up three extra. So we have been working 4 at a time proper after our first one. And so by June of that yr, as a result of we picked up our first in January, by June, we’d accomplished like 5 – 6. After which it type of stored snowballing from there till our highest yr, we did 21. Oh
Dave Meyer:
My God, that simply provides me a lot anxiousness. I can’t even take into consideration that. But it surely’s superior. I imply, it’s unbelievable. However are you able to inform us a bit of bit about them, Chauncey? How a lot have been these offers? What have been you paying for them? How have been you financing them? And the way massive of the renovation have been you doing since you have been doing a lot quantity?
Chauncey Pham:
Once we first began, we have been shopping for within the excessive ones, low twos, after which we have been doing round $60,000 renovations and promoting within the mid threes to excessive threes. We continued to progress. And clearly right here within the Dallas-Fort Price area-
Henry Washington:
So did the costs.
Chauncey Pham:
I imply, that doesn’t exist anymore. And so now we’re buying just about all throughout the board, however I might say that our candy spot is buying someplace within the threes, doing round $150,000 renovation and promoting in sevens, excessive sixes or sevens. Wow. One deal that I simply accomplished, we’re capable of decide it up at 405. We did $190,000 or so renovation and it bought at 860.
Dave Meyer:
Wow, wonderful.
Henry Washington:
So these numbers, the unique numbers, the buying those, renovate for about 50 to 60, promoting the threes, that’s about what my market is now. And it looks as if you’re targeted extra on a better worth level buy. Is that the identical residence that you simply have been shopping for when costs have been completely different or are you particularly in search of a better finish sort of deal?
Chauncey Pham:
So our aim will not be essentially to purchase a home at a selected worth level. We at all times prefer to search for homes which are standouts, that when available on the market they’ve one thing cool or quirky about them. So whether or not it’s the structure, it’s one thing architectural about them, it’s the lot, and it simply at all times tends to be round that worth level. However realistically, the specs of the properties that we’re shopping for proper now are about the identical as they have been once we first began again in 2019, the costs are simply a lot costlier.
Dave Meyer:
I like this method. I simply must say, I feel I like the thought of in search of one thing completely different. In my view although, there’s a half the place it goes too far, proper? How quirky are we speaking?
Chauncey Pham:
Nothing loopy, however I simply refuse to do exactly normal grey or white partitions with … I want one thing attention-grabbing. We go for giant skylights, cool entrances, humorous layouts. We do numerous sunken residing rooms, rather a lot of-
Dave Meyer:
Very 70s,
Chauncey Pham:
Yeah. Sure, sure. And we hold these parts the place most flippers would go in and doubtless attempt to make all the things appear to be all the things else available on the market. We discover the homes with outdated character and we attempt to protect it.
Dave Meyer:
I assume it limits a bit of bit who you promote to, however are these folks extra then? Such as you get people who find themselves actually passionate in regards to the properties as a result of there’s one thing that they get hooked up to.
Chauncey Pham:
Sure, right. So primarily my advertising and marketing background, even simply doing advertising and marketing on-line will inform you that your job as a marketer is to create a proposal that’s so irresistible that the patron can’t not purchase. They really feel silly for not shopping for it and to virtually create raving followers to your product. And that’s type of the method that we take. And so yeah, we’re usually getting a number of gives, however we’re not getting 15. We could get three or 4, however these three or 4 folks that need the home and the one which in the end finally ends up going underneath contract will do something to be sure that they keep underneath contract as a result of they know they will’t discover one other product like ours.
Dave Meyer:
A lot good things right here from Chauncey, however we’ve bought to take a fast break. We’ll be proper again. Welcome again to the BiggerPockets podcast. Let’s soar again in with Chauncey Fan. So that you’ve talked rather a lot about flipping, however have you ever ever thought of doing rental properties or another methods alongside flipping?
Chauncey Pham:
Yeah. Yeah. We’ve got some leases out in East Texas. So we have now a portfolio of 17 leases in East Texas. However what I discovered right here in Texas is that it’s very tough to money movement something within the Dallas-Fort Price market, just because taxes and insurance coverage is so costly on prime of the acquisition prices. So the market that we’re in is like Texarkana, Tyler, Longview. I’m really from Texarkana. So that you’re capable of purchase properties there for actually low-cost. Lots of people lease endlessly there and also you’ll get good money movement, 500, $700 a month. However the issue is the worth of these homes, they don’t enhance. So that you’re money flowing, however for those who go to promote it 10 years later, you’re fortunate if the worth has gone up $20,000 or so. So I’m not likely hardcore within the constructing of leases. We actually prefer to leverage doing issues that get us numerous capital in hand after which taking that and type of investing in different shops.
Henry Washington:
So it sounds such as you used your market experience as an agent to know the place I should purchase for money movement and the place I should purchase to extend my return so to strategically purchase rental properties, however it sounds just like the flipping enterprise is what’s actually producing the revenue, however the market modified, the worth factors shifted and meaning threat shifted. Is there anything that you simply did do or have achieved that can assist you mitigate the danger and the change of the market that has occurred over the 2025, 2026 market? As a result of lots of people fell on their face in 2025. So how are you staying worthwhile?
Chauncey Pham:
Completely. So actually enthusiastic about this new type of mannequin that we constructed out and it’s our turnkey mannequin the place we primarily are operators. So as an alternative of getting into and truly proudly owning the properties, we have now purchasers which are liquid, usually at the very least $150,000 or so, and they’re interested by getting a return on their cash by flipping, however they don’t have something aside from the cash. And as an alternative of doing what a typical flipper would do, which is take their cash after which go and purchase a flip after which give them a set return on it, as an alternative we’ve constructed out the entire verticals round flipping homes. So that you’ve bought to search out it, you bought to fund it, you bought to repair it, you bought to furnish it, and you then bought to flip it, proper? So I personal all of these components of the transaction. So we’re sourcing the offers, we’re the lender, we dealer out cash after which we have now our personal business line of credit score that we mortgage out.
We personal the development firm. I’ve the staging stock due to the actual property brokerage that I went to, I’ve a whole lot of brokers beneath me, so we’re itemizing the property. So primarily we’re capable of go to our purchasers and say, “Hey, I’ve bought this home, I’ve bought it for, you may decide it up for $200,000. Right here’s the scope of labor. It’s going to value roughly X, Y, Z.” It’s correct as a result of I personal that a part of the method. Right here’s the design, right here’s all the things that has to do with it. Right here’s the typical days on market, right here’s the ARV, and so your potential revenue when it sells will likely be X, Y, Z. Do you need to take it down or not? And in that case, then we begin that course of and I’m earning profits in each single one of many steps of that course of that that particular person would’ve in any other case needed to gone out, discover a home, get a lender, discover a GC, rent a designer, rent a staging firm, discover a realtor.
I’m all of these issues for them. And I’m capable of make six figures on every take care of zero cash out of my pocket. And so I’m leveraging my skillset in home flipping to have now turn into an operator and constructed out a extremely worthwhile enterprise with out me having to technically personal the asset.
Dave Meyer:
I imply, that sounds unbelievable. Each out of your perspective, but in addition from a flipper, for those who’re not an expert at this, it sounds such as you’re providing rather a lot. However for those who’re making six figures, what are the margins for the flipper?
Chauncey Pham:
It relies upon, however I imply, they’re usually making 20%, 25%, someplace in there.
Dave Meyer:
Okay. However are they working the mission? Are they doing-
Chauncey Pham:
No, they do nothing. They’re fully palms off. They
Dave Meyer:
Do nothing.
Chauncey Pham:
They do nothing.
Dave Meyer:
Okay.
Chauncey Pham:
They do completely nothing aside from signal on the dotted line and purchase the property and signal when it closes.
Henry Washington:
So that you’re not apprehensive about earning profits because the investor, you’re apprehensive about your firms earning profits all alongside the way in which? Is that …
Chauncey Pham:
Right. Right.
Henry Washington:
Okay. So stroll me by what that appears like from an investor’s standpoint. So what’s a typical deal appear to be for you because the enterprise homeowners and the investor?
Chauncey Pham:
All of them look completely different as a result of I personal the completely different items of the method. There’s no set payment for every half, if that is smart. Okay. So some homes, if I’m capable of purchase it actually low, then I can entrance load it and I can earn more money on the acquisition. So if I’m capable of purchase a property that’s price 350,000 for 85,000, then clearly I can offload that to my consumer at perhaps a 150. So now I’ve made an enormous chunk on the entrance finish, proper? Versus a home that I’m not essentially buying actually, actually low, however I do know it has in depth development, then I can in the end construction the deal the place I’m making extra money on the development facet or within the design. So there’s no set numbers. We underwrite them otherwise. Each single home is totally completely different, however our aim is to be sure that our turnkey purchasers are coming again.
So our aim is to be sure that they’re earning profits. And so I’m going to construction the deal in a manner that each time they’re getting extra money than they’d in another manner in placing their cash available in the market in any manner. And so so long as I can try this they usually’re not doing something they usually can name themselves a home flipper, they get the ego of having the ability to say, I’m an investor with being palms off, however then getting a 20, 25, typically as much as 35% return on it, then they’re comfortable as clams.
Dave Meyer:
I’m simply making an attempt to know the danger reward profile right here
Chauncey Pham:
As a result of
Dave Meyer:
It’s like different turnkey properties, proper? Usually, for those who go and purchase a turnkey rental property, you’re giving up a few of your upside to decrease your general threat.
Chauncey Pham:
And
Dave Meyer:
That’s type of what this looks as if. You’re giving up a few of your upside in a flip to decrease your general threat. So I’m simply making an attempt to know what the dangers are for the flipper. They’re proudly owning the property, they’re nonetheless responsible for value overruns. So these are vital concerns for individuals who would think about this mannequin.
Chauncey Pham:
Yeah, completely. However the fee overruns aren’t the … We went over and also you simply must pay it. It’s, this can be a resolution that as an actual property investor, you might want to make. And in the end, once we are underwriting these properties, we’re extraordinarily conservative with our numbers. So we’re calculating all the things as if all the things has to get mounted. We’re speaking the entire MEPs, all the things beauty. So if there occurs to be an overrun, then that’s usually as a result of we’ve seen some type of upside. So the home throughout the road simply went available on the market and it has an additional bed room and we have now the chance to transform an area right here to a bed room if you wish to obtain that quantity. So then at that time you get to make that call. It’s not simply an arbitrary, “Sorry, we went over. You bought to pay this more money in development.” It’s not that sort of factor.
In order that they get what the complete scope of labor is earlier than they even make the choice to accumulate the property they usually know what all of that appears like.
Henry Washington:
And it sounds humorous, however such as you mentioned, I’m making greater than them, however you’re making greater than them throughout a number of completely different Completely different companies. Right. And that is all cash that an investor pays to different firms anyway. Yeah, we’ll be being paid anyway. That is what I do anyway. Everyone at all times makes extra money than me. It’s simply what I get to stroll away on the finish of the day. I pay my contractors, I pay the title firms, I pay the actual property brokers, I pay the mission managers, after which I get to maintain what’s left. The method doesn’t change. It’s simply that on this specific area of interest, on this specific market, you personal all these companies. So that you’re mitigating your threat by taking your revenue margins by your firms and never having to personal the actual property asset, and also you’re nonetheless earning profits flipping homes. You’re simply not the one proudly owning the asset and also you get to supply primarily a turnkey product to your vendor.
That’s a reasonably cool perspective. Vertical integration is, I feel, vital to most companies, however it’s an intimidating factor to tackle. How did you’re taking that chew of the elephant to the place you began to personal completely different components of the method that weren’t the everyday purchase the home, renovate the home?
Chauncey Pham:
Yeah. So it really began with this mastermind that I’d gone to for actual property, they usually had us do that train the place we wrote the phrase realtor within the center, circled it, after which we needed to give you who all in a transaction made cash. And on the finish of the day, I feel we got here up with 45 completely different folks in an actual property transaction, generate profits from one thing out of realtor rinks. So then once we discovered ourselves on a tv present, flipping homes and getting increasingly demand for needing to get extra homes, we have been like, “Man, I don’t actually need to purchase extra homes. How can we leverage what we all know? How can we … ” And I simply had this thought and I informed my husband, I’m like, “We did this train once I was a realtor. Let’s see the entire completely different components of flipping a home, how many individuals are earning profits off of that?
” And as an alternative of us going out and at all times shopping for extra homes, why can’t we simply leverage our skillset on this and leverage our experience and generate profits off of the entire completely different components? As a result of in the end that’s what folks have essentially the most issues with is implementation. So if I can implement issues for those that I’ve already turn into an professional at and I can simply generate profits, then that’s how I’ll do it. So it actually was type of born from, once more, this concept that I discovered being a realtor after which out of necessity of simply persevering with to wish to purchase extra homes on the tv present. And proper on the tail finish of that, and I’m like, I’m bored with having to purchase extra homes. We completed and wrapped manufacturing with the present and we have been like, let’s do this turnkey factor. Sufficient folks now know us.
We’ve got the credibility. We’ve got the processes constructed out. And so then we simply began doing what we have been already doing. So then it was fairly easy. We have been already sourcing offers. So we simply made {that a} legit course of. We already understood laborious cash lending. So then we checked out what it might take to get a line of credit score that we might mortgage out and dealer for different laborious cash lenders. We already had our personal development firm, in order that was already set in stone. However then we bought our tax resale certificates after which we arrange accounts with the entire wholesale suppliers for the supplies. We then purchased the staging stock and set that enterprise up. So it was issues that we have been already doing. I feel you begin to get into the weeds with vertical integration once you’re making an attempt to reinvent the wheel as an alternative of taking a look at what you’re already doing, who you’re paying cash to, after which seeing how one can type of carry that in- home, which is in the end what we did.
Dave Meyer:
It makes complete sense. I imply, this cash goes out. You would possibly as nicely get a few of it when you’ve got the capability to do it. It’s spectacular, tremendous spectacular that you simply’re capable of run all these companies. Did you begin all of them? Did you purchase them or is all this from scratch?
Chauncey Pham:
No, we began.
Dave Meyer:
Wow, that’s
Chauncey Pham:
Superior. We began all of them from scratch.
Dave Meyer:
Very cool.
Chauncey Pham:
Simply one after the other. And so they’re not working independently. I’m not advertising and marketing all of them. So it doesn’t appear daunting.
Dave Meyer:
Yeah. It’s not such as you’re doing staging for another person. You do it for your self. Yeah. Proper. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes complete sense. So that you’re advertising and marketing turnkey after which all the things else flows from there.
Chauncey Pham:
Right.
Dave Meyer:
That is smart.
Chauncey Pham:
And sometimes we get the one-offs the place somebody simply desires a retail development job, we’ll take it. I do design jobs for different folks, however that’s not my focus and that’s not what I market, however I do have the power to do this. In order the market modifications, I’m within the place to generate profits in a ton of various methods when different folks aren’t.
Henry Washington:
Properly, I commend you, you’re braver than me as a result of the quantity of occasions I’ve thought, man, I ought to simply begin my very own development firm as a result of I’m working all these crews anyway and simply haven’t pulled the set off to do it. You might be my inspiration that that is completely doable, Harry. Particularly with the extent of experience- Completely
Chauncey Pham:
Doable, dude. It’s so doable. It truly is.
Henry Washington:
All proper, Chauncey, thanks a lot for approaching the BiggerPockets Podcast and sharing a literal wealth of expertise. I want we had extra time to have the ability to dive into the entire issues that you’ve got skilled and have expertise in in the actual property world. Thanks a lot.
Chauncey Pham:
Thanks for having me guys.
Dave Meyer:
Thanks, Chauncey.
Henry Washington:
Additionally, guys, for those who discovered one thing from this episode, then I like to recommend you trying out BiggerPockets Podcast, episode 1160 that’s again from August 2025, the place Dave and I each shared a few of our favourite low-cost and simple strategies for sourcing nice offers. Thanks a lot everyone for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We’ll see you on the following episode.
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